Tuesday, December 8, 2009

Ooooh! Oooh! Look at the Crazy!

A couple of Skeptical Friends discovered a particularly egregious blog post by my favourite homeopath - Sonya McLeod...

One friend send a response that did not get past her moderation, so a few others went on asking questions instead - and were eventually outed.

I'm reprinting the totally fucking bananas comment thread that followed, just in case she decides to delete it all.  I haven't changed a single character, except for shortening the line of dashes that got transferred in my cut and paste & a friendly redacting request which should be obvious by the series of 'X'-es...

I shant say more - sometimes the crazy just doesn't need further comment....

EDIT: Okay, it's 12 hours later and there is good reason to comment further.  Judging by my blog stat tracking I am virtually positive that Ms. McLeod has found this post.  I won't bore you with the specific forensic details that lead me to that conclusion, but I am confident to say "Hi Sonya."
As predicted she has deleted almost all of her comment thread, which really is just a cowardly exhibition of her inability to deal with reason... but I don't think that should be a surprise to anyone who has followed any of my other coverage of her postings.
And on top of it all she has added a pretty ridiculous ad hoc comment policy to that post.  See comment #5 to this post to see the details on that.
Now back to your regularly scheduled post...

20 Responses to “H1N1 Vaccine Miscarriages: Exclusive Interview with Connie Adams and More Reports Worldwide”
Feed for this Entry Trackback Address

1 Mandy
December 7, 2009 at 6:18 pm
I was 5 weeks pregnant when I got the H1N1 vaccine. I received the shot on a Thursday and was very sore and achy on Friday. I miscarried my baby on Sunday, just 3 days after receiving the shot. This was my first pregnancy and I thought I was doing the best thing for myself and my baby by getting the shot. My doctor didn’t warn me against waiting until I was further along nor was I aware of any warnings by the government. (Columbus, Ohio, USA)

2 littlemountainhomeopathy
December 8, 2009 at 10:03 am
As with all my posts, personal attacks, sexist remarks and homeophobic attacks (as well as homophobic lol) will be deleted.

3 Grace
December 8, 2009 at 12:49 pm

Miscarriages happen without taking this shot, so I was wondering if you knew how many happen after taking the vaccine vs not taking it at all. Any idea where we could find that info?


4 littlemountainhomeopathy
December 8, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Hello Grace. Thanks for your comment. You bring up a good point, but it is very hard if not impossible to find the info you seek. The reason for this is that the mainstream press does not report these miscarriages even though they are happening. Also doctors are telling women that their miscarriages are not from the vaccine, even though the miscarriages coincide with taking the vaccine. The women believe the doctors and don’t report the miscarriage as a side effect of the vaccine.

5 Grace
December 8, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Thanks for the quick reply!

I’m not sure what you mean about the press though… in your article you listed some news sources that were reporting them, so they are being reported, aren’t they?

Anyhow what I’m wondering is this: You said that there were 9 reported cases in europe – is that more than we would expect given the number of miscarriages that happen anyways for unrelated reasons? Like if 10% of pregnancies end in miscarriage (I don’t know if that’s the right number) then won’t 10% of pregnant women who get the shot have a miscarriage even if the vaccine is harmless?

Thanks again!

6 littlemountainhomeopathy
December 8, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Hello Grace. Yes, a few are being reported in Europe, but even in Europe there are miscarriages from the H1N1 vaccine happening that are not being reported. In North America, the mainstream press has not reported them even though it is happening (e.g. Connie and the 7-8 who contacted her, I’m sure there are more). If we knew the true number of miscarriages then it would be possible to analyze the data, but since we don’t, it’s impossible. Doctors refuse to believe that the H1N1 vaccine is causing the miscarriage, so proper investigation isn’t even being done (e.g. autopsy). Even when investigations are done (e.g. in Europe) I believe that the conclusions are biased because if it were proven that the vaccine caused the damage then the government (taxpayers) would have to pay for those damages.

7 Jesse
December 8, 2009 at 3:02 pm

You said “If we knew the true number of miscarriages then it would be possible to analyze the data, but since we don’t, it’s impossible.”

If it’s impossible to analyze with the available data, then how do you come to the conclusion that H1N1 vaccines are causing more miscarriages than would occur without the vaccine (or, as Grace suggests, with a harmless vaccine)? If you don’t know the base rate of miscarriages, then it’s impossible to tell if the vaccine is causing them, isn’t it?

8 littlemountainhomeopathy
December 8, 2009 at 3:11 pm
Hello Jesse. This is exactly why these miscarriages aren’t being investigated. If they were investigated, we would be able to conclude something. Now we are just forced to guess. I believe that the toxic ingredients in the vaccines are causing miscarriages. We don’t know for sure, but I’m putting forth the evidence that I have in this post.

9 Jesse
December 8, 2009 at 3:18 pm
But the guess seems like a random shot in the dark. Presumably, they also drove to the clinic to get the vaccine. Does that mean that driving causes miscarriages? If you aren’t comparing the miscarriage rate to anything, then how can you make a conclusion?

10 littlemountainhomeopathy
December 8, 2009 at 3:21 pm
In Connie and Zahra’s case, you can make the conclusion based on the fact that they felt ill after the vaccine and before getting the vaccine everything was going fine in their pregnancies. The vaccines are also very toxic which I have talked about in other posts. When you inject toxins into a pregnant woman the toxins will affect the fetus negatively, sometimes resulting in miscarriage. If the baby is carried to term perhaps it will result in birth defects, I’m sure we’ll be hearing about that in a few months.

11 Jesse
December 8, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Aren’t there lots of pregnant women who have gotten the vaccine with no miscarriage, and no negative effects on the fetus at all? Couldn’t you use that fact to make the opposite argument?

I think what Grace was saying is that you have to compare the miscarriage rate in the vaccine group to the rate in the non-vaccine group before you can make the conclusion that the vaccine is relevant. That’s why controlled trials are important in medicine. Without the controls, do you think it is a bit irresponsible to make conclusions and recommendations?

12 littlemountainhomeopathy
December 8, 2009 at 3:33 pm
We have no idea what the long term effects of the H1N1 vaccine will be on a fetus. There are no long-term clinical trials that have been done on the H1N1 vaccine. Therefore we have no idea about the long term effects it will have on anybody – adult, child, or fetus. Those pregnant women who got the H1N1 vaccine may feel that they did not suffer any side effects, but we cannot say what the long-term effects will be.

The irresponsible thing is to promote this vaccine to pregnant women and children yet there have been so adequate trials performed on the effect of the H1N1 vaccine on women and children. Plus the ingredients are toxic to a fetus, they are listed in this post: Update: Swine Flu Vaccine Without Adjuvant is Unsafe

13 Jesse
December 8, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Here’s another question: if it turned out that a woman had a miscarriage shortly after a homeopathic treatment, would you say that the homeopathy likely caused it? Wouldn’t you want to make sure it wasn’t just a coincidence first? If so, then aren’t you obligated to do the same in this case?

14 littlemountainhomeopathy
December 8, 2009 at 3:36 pm
That can’t happen, because unlike vaccines and pharmaceuticals, homeopathic medicines are completely safe and non toxic.

15 Dominique
December 8, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Hi there. I don’t think you answered Jesse’s question. Lets say it did happen. Would you draw the same conclusion? Or would you first think to yourself “Maybe something else caused it?” or “Maybe it was some accident?”.

I only ask because many many scientists and doctors have said “That can’t happen, because the N1H1 vaccines are completely safe and non toxic.” You’re saying they are not, but you’re not giving us a reason to believe you over believing them.


16 Jesse
December 8, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Also, I think you misunderstood me. A certain number of women get miscarriages normally, right? Either from something they’ve done, or just because it happens once in a while. So no matter what group you look at – including women who have gone to a homeopath – a base percentage can be expected to miscarry. I’m not saying the homeopathy would have caused it, but it could happen as a coincidence. Without carefully comparing the vaccine group to a control group, there’s no way to know if these miscarriages are just a coincidence.

If you are saying that vaccines are toxic, so of course they cause miscarriages, then OK, but that’s an assertion you’re making that isn’t based at all on the cases you cited in your post. Those cases have an emotional impact, but if it turns out that they were just coincidental, then don’t you think it’s a a bit of a manipulation? Would that be dishonest?

17 Grace
December 8, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Thanks again for the response.

Sorry, I thought since you were sounding the alarm about this problem that you must have some info on the rates of miscarriages with the vaccine vs the rates without. You say that the miscarriages are ‘from’ the vaccine, but all we know is that they’re happening afterwards. Without information about how many are happening vs how many to expect, how do you know the vaccine is increasing the number of miscarriages?

8-9 women out of the millions who have been given the flu shot in the US seems well within the expected amount… If every pregnant woman were to take a homeopathic remedy you would expect some percentage of them to have a miscarriage afterwards – the same number as would have if they had taken plain water instead, right? Of course it wouldn’t be fair to blame homeopathy for those miscarriages, so I’m not sure how the situation with the flu shot is any different than that… can you clarify?

Sorry for all the questions, thank you for your patience.

18 littlemountainhomeopathy
December 8, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Hello Grace, Dominique and Jesse
The H1N1 vaccine is toxic. Toxicity harms a fetus. Here is evidence of H1N1 vaccine toxicity, taken from my past blog posts:

from “Update: Swine Flu Vaccine Without Adjuvant is Unsafe” http://littlemountainhomeopathy.wordpress.com/2009/10/27/update-canadian-swine-flu-ingredients-for-pregnant-women-can-harm-your-baby/

Neomycin is an antibiotic that can cause damage to the kidneys and/or nerves. Side effects are decreased urination, hearing loss, ringing in the ears, feeling of fullness in the ears, dizziness, numbness, skin tingling, muscle twitching, or seizures which may be signs of kidney or nerve damage. Neomycin is in pregnancy category D which means it may be harmful to an unborn baby.

Polymyxin B Sulfate is also an antibiotic. It can cause serious side effects, including kidney failure. Other side effects include irritability, weakness, drowsiness, numbness in the arms or legs, or blurred vision. The safety of Polymyxin B Sulfate has not been established for use during pregnancy.

Beta-Propiolactone is a disinfectant. The CDC labels beta-propiolactone as a potential human carcinogen. In rats, acute oral administration or intraperitoneal injection of beta-propiolactone caused muscular spasms, respiratory difficulty, convulsions, and death. Acute intravenous injection caused kidney tubule and liver damage. Subcutaneous injection of beta-propiolactone in rats and mice produced cancer at the sites of administration. Single intraperitoneal injections in suckling mice produced lymphatic tumors and liver cancer. A study in 1984 in the Journal of Neurological Sciences showed that some neurological complications in young adults was caused by antirabies vaccines containing beta-propiolactone.

From “Swine flu vaccine ingredients are not safe for pregnant women and children” http://littlemountainhomeopathy.wordpress.com/2009/10/17/the-swine-flu-vaccine-is-not-safe-for-pregnant-women-and-children/

Doctors, pharmacists, and the mainstream press assure us that thimerosal is not harmful but one recent study begs to differ. A study done by UBC professor Dr. Chris Shaw published in the June 2009 edition of Toxicological and Environmental Chemistry found that thimerosal is toxic to the cells of an unborn fetus. Pregnant women are told not to eat tuna because it contains high levels of mercury, yet it is perfectly acceptable to inject mercury directly into a pregnant woman?! The US and Canadian governments assure us that thimerosal is not harmful, yet they have systematically removed thimerosal from every single childhood vaccine except for the (swine) flu vaccine. Russia, Denmark, Austria, Japan, Great Britain, and all the Scandinavian countries have banned thimerosal from being used in any of their vaccines.

19 littlemountainhomeopathy
December 8, 2009 at 9:48 pm
It has just come to my attention that Grace is actually XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX; “she” is a man. XXXXXXXXXX and Jesse are both members of a group called the “skeptics society.” The skeptics have a political agenda: they are anti-environmental and oppose all restrictions on business, especially biotechnology. They are avid supporters of Big Pharma. They are also men, and I believe that they have are addressing me and belittling this blog post in a sexist manner. Instead of listening to what me and these women have to say, they belittle our experiences and tell us that we are wrong. Well I have one thing to tell you: our experience is more real and true than any of your sexism and put-downs.
To read more about the political agenda behind the skeptics society go to: http://elephantsandmice.wordpress.com/2009/09/14/the-weird-beginnings-skeptic-confusion/


  1. Another friend followed up with this comment - a very good and valid one. She passed it on to me via Facebook in case Ms McL decided not to let it through moderation to the comment thread.

    I am reposting it here with her permission (and because there was apparently some technical weirdness on her end.)

    Jesse and Brent have extended a great deal of respect towards other commenters, by taking their comments seriously and holding them to a high standard of discourse. They have listened carefully to what others have said - you can tell by noticing how they address other posts point by point. Challenging other commenters to provide evidence for their assertions is not sexism, it's dialogue. It is treating the other commenters as equals, able to defend their position and capable of rationality.

    How embarassing for you that in your post accusing two thoughtful commenters of sexism you yourself use stereotype to depersonalize and dismiss them. Because they are men does not mean they are sexist - asking for clarification and pointing out flaws in the arguments of others isn't sexism. It is embarassing to be proven wrong, or to have one's position exposed as illogical, or unsupported by evidence, or poorly argued - but that isn't sexism either.

    You also characterize them as anti-environmental, opposed to controls in business, etc., based on their affiliation with a group - these are individuals you have never met, and there has been no discussion of any of the "skeptic agenda" topics you brought up, yet you make assumptions about them and then assert them as a way to discredit Jesse and Brent. Leaving aside the supposed agenda of skeptics (I'd ask for your proof of that but I don't want to be accused of sexism), I ask, are all members of a given group the same? Might as well ask "Are all women the same?" Of course not.

    I wonder why you are resorting to stereotype based personal attacks instead of addressing their points?

  2. Thanks for posting this Kennedy, I'm none too happy with Sonya right about now, and I think she will make great target practice for Vancouver skeptics.

    I had one little dig at her that didn't pass moderation. When she said "That can’t happen, because unlike vaccines and pharmaceuticals, homeopathic medicines are completely safe and non toxic," I replied with something like "Ah, so you have the conclusion before you consider the evidence? That hardly seems fair." Guess that was a little too 'homeophobic' for her. Or maybe it's just her time of the month. (Kidding! Kidding!)

    'Dominique' is actually a friend of mine, also using a pseudonym.

  3. The posts have been taken down from the Little Mountain blog now (well, except for the convenient supporting anecdote, of course)... you should probably get tested for psychic ability.

    Here's my last post, which never made it through moderation, in case anyone is interested:



    Yes, I am posting under a pseudonym, as are you. I wasn’t aware that there was a requirement to post under real names on this blog. I would appreciate it if you would respect my wish to post anonymously.

    As for sexism, if your responses or attitude to me were based on some assumed gender, then that would be sexism on your part, not mine. I don’t recall ever mentioning my gender.

    Regarding skepticism, you would be better served by the following links. I’ve never heard of ‘Frank Furedi’ or the ‘LM Group’, nor am I anti-environment or pro-big-pharma.



    I have listened to what you and these women have to say, and I don’t see how my (hopefully) polite questioning could be construed as an attempt to belittle you or put you down. I do appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions, though.


  4. And my final response, which I would be SHOCKED to see pass moderation:


    "As with all my posts, rational inquiry, fair questions, and mild disagreement will be deleted."

    Sonya, your paranoid and bigoted final response and the subsequent deletion of all remotely critical comments shows a remarkable level of immaturity and an almost fundamentalist fervour in the beliefs you aren't even able to defend without resorting to outright censorship of criticism. I don't know where you got your information about skeptics, but we all had a good laugh at your delusions last night.

    Truthfully, I don't care what you believe, or why you believe it. No one is going to make you use proven science to keep your kids from getting sick. You're free to fill your family with memory-retentive water, and I sincerely hope they don't contract tuberculosis and die, I really do. The problem comes when you try to sell ineffective treatments to other people. You clearly haven't done any decent research into medicine, you're parroting tired old arguments that have been addressed over and over. You are closed minded when it comes to science. You owe it to your clients to make damn sure you have the right information before you put their health at risk. I think you are hurting people, and that upsets me. It's unfortunate that you aren't even willing to have a grown-up discussion about it.


  5. Oh dear....

    Not only did she delete everything, but she has added this comment:


    December 9, 2009 at 11:04 am
    All posts from extremist right-wing hate groups will be deleted.



    The funny thing is, just last night Jesse and I were commenting to ourselves that being skeptics, the right wing thinks we are left, the left wing thinks we are right... I didn't know that the delusional thought we are an "extremeist right-wing hate group."

    It's so laughable. Can you see in the thread above where Jesse & "Grace" and "Dominique" are spewing hate?

    Well done McL, that is an amazing stealth Godwin. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to go put on my brown shirt and go to goose-stepping class.

  6. Here is the comment I submitted this morning:

    Hi Sonya. I'm not sure what parts of the deleted comments you felt were sexist, but I think there were some fair criticisms of your article.

    A miscarriage occurring after vaccination of course does not prove that the vaccination was the CAUSE of the miscarriage. If you would like us to be legitimately concerned about this risk, you would need to show that the miscarriage rate in vaccinated women was higher than the base rate. You would also need to show that it outweighed the risks of contracting H1N1.... See More

    As a woman, I am also am insulted at your playing the "sexism" card. If men angrily disagree with you, that doesn't mean it is because you are a woman or they are sexist. There is a lot of sexism out there, and throwing out that type of accusation when it is unwarranted undermines efforts to fight real sexism.

    It's clear that you feel you are helping people. But please understand that us "skeptics" are not part of some big pharma conspiracy. We look to the evidence to decide what treatments are valid, and the evidence shows that vaccines are incredibly safe and effective, while homeopathy is ineffective.

    If you would like to change our minds, I would encourage you to join the discussion rather than deleting our comments without addressing them.



    The response I received was:

    "All posts from extremist right-wing hate groups will be deleted."

  7. I wrote a post about this on my blog http://ethanhistorianblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/danger-danger-sonya-mcleod.html

    Anyway I echoed the concerns here. I also linked to this post with the deleted comments. I really hope a lot of people check this out. The more light we can shine on Sonya, the harder it will be for her to swindle people.

    Keep up the good work Skeptics!

  8. This comment has been removed by the author.

  9. For those still interesting in the original point. There is a good article describing how hard is to assess the effects of vaccine, which includes the miscarriage statistics:

  10. I noticed today that she has removed the "All posts from extremist right-wing hate groups will be deleted." comment from her blog.

    Too bad for her it's recorded for posterity here: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2502/4177122817_bc55b61160_o.jpg

  11. "Hey, look!

    All the critical comments are gone! On the one hand, I am glad to see that they've retracted their foolishness.

    On the other, though, it must be such an act of intellectual cowardice on the part of your detractors simply because you engaged their ideas with reasoned argument and proved them wrong with the evidence."

    ...My comment is still awaiting moderation. Maybe she'll miss the irony.